Building an Indoor Golf Club in NYC - Clubhouse Golf with Liam Hyde

Alan Li (00:01) Today's guest, Liam Hyde, is the founder of Clubhouse Golf, a premium indoor golf simulator space in New York City that just opened last month in April 2026. They have a really interesting business model, which I'm excited to dive into. and before Clubhouse Golf, Liam was also spending a lot of time in sales at MuleSoft, Brock and Gamble, Compass. Liam, really excited to have you on the podcast.

Liam (00:23) Thanks having me. Excited to be here.

Alan Li (00:26) All right, well I'm excited to dive in, but you know, briefly maybe we can touch upon what you were doing before Clubhouse Golf and how this all came together.

Liam (00:34) Yeah, definitely. so I basically graduated from Indiana and then found myself I was actually gonna go to San Antonio to work at Proctor and Gamble, ended up deciding to not do that and then got a job at MuleSoft slash Salesforce and then just found my way to New York. really just wanted to be in New York in general and this was a great way to to get there. and then so

Basically worked my way up at Salesforce, started as a a BDR, cold calling, cold emailing, and then got to the account executive role where I was selling basically an integration software that Salesforce owns. And it was great. I mean it was lot of great learning experience. and, you know, I wouldn't say that it was my my dream job and I kind of always knew that, but I did know that there was always something to to learn from what I was doing.

Alan Li (01:34) Yeah.

Liam (01:35) so then I was there for bait about four, five years and then that's kind of where we are now, to how I I ended up jumping into to Clubhouse.

Alan Li (01:47) I see. Well, I mean, even if it wasn't, you know, the the perfect job it got you to New York, which is where you wanted to be. so how did you find your time or how have you found your time in New York so far?

Liam (01:53) Definitely. Yeah. Exactly.

I I honestly love New York. Like I I don't know if I'm ever gonna leave. I'm from LA originally, and you know, I think a lot of people will compare the two, like the differences, but they're I mean you're in LA right now, like you you know they're so vastly different in terms of like what they offer. and for me, like just being able to like meet so many new people, go from place to place.

Alan Li (02:07) Yeah.

Liam (02:27) like try all these different experiences. Like I think it's something that is a lot different than LA where you can, you know, it's a very relaxing lifestyle, but it's it's not really the same in that way. And granted I I haven't lived there since before college. So, you know, I could be totally wrong for those that are, you know, listening and might defend LA.

Alan Li (02:44) Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I I always say everyone should live in New York in their twenties or early thirties if they can. It's just there's nothing like it, I think, out there. the sort of energy, the pace, the density, is is pretty unmatched, at least in the United States. Yeah.

Liam (03:01) Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely true.

you know, I think it it shapes a person. for good and for bad, I think everyone can use a little break sometimes, but it definitely it definitely has a a very unique experience to living here.

Alan Li (03:23) Yeah. Okay. Well tell me about Clubhouse Golf. How did the idea originate? it was it when you were still at MuleSoft and what gave you the confidence to to make the leap and and jump in?

Liam (03:34) Yeah. it was a long process of like when we I basically when I moved to New York we were living with like four guys and like as one does, like you talk about all these ideas that you have and like things you want to open and like a golf simulator, like we all are obsessed with golf and like in New York it's you know, there's limited options in general and then the golf simulator scene, I felt like had some gaps that I wanted to fill. but you know, that was kind of just an idea and then

Alan Li (03:43) Yeah.

Liam (04:03) you know, you move on with your life, you do your job. And then eventually, I would say like about I guess it's a year ago, a little more than a year ago, I was like, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna actually do it. But I did actually wanna start in college towns across the Midwest. I went to Indiana so like I felt like people would go to school in the Midwest, especially Indiana, and then kind of just leave but forget about, you know, that that's a

Alan Li (04:26) Mm.

Liam (04:32) a growing town and there's still a lot of opportunity there. So I was gonna start it there and then there were some complications with the leases and like logistics with moving there. so then I was gonna do it in at UVA and I went to go see some spaces there and you know kind of a different strategy.

Alan Li (04:51) Yeah.

But wha why why were you thinking of college towns, and not New York? Was it 'cause th like the rent's cheaper or like, you know, college students?

Liam (04:58) Yeah, I mean like I I'm not like

I wasn't coming with like a big, you know, backing of investment. Like it was kind of like, you know, I'm gonna bootstrap this and try and do it. And like I didn't really even look into it that much in New York. It just seemed like so far fetched that like the way to do it and actually start maybe in like a place that has kind of that arbitrage of, you know, there's a lot of people there, but it's cheap because it's mostly college students and it's a small town.

Alan Li (05:07) Yeah.

Liam (05:26) et cetera. So and then I just like randomly looked in New York and found this lease in the lower east side. And then long story short, that kind of didn't work out. I kind of got that pulled under me. and then this is obviously a very long tidbit about how this all got started, but and then I was like, okay, what am I gonna do now? Like I I don't have a lease. Like this is a really good deal and I can't

find another place that was like it and then kinda just kept looking and looking and f saw probably, you know, fifty different spaces in New York. and then found this one and

Alan Li (06:04) And were you looking

by yourself or did did you have a broker or agent or something?

Liam (06:08) At first it was

by myself and then I ended up meeting this amazing broker. her name is Olivia Wang. Just plug her there. But so she ended up kind of coming in last minute and we worked on it together. but yeah. So like that was basically how we found it. And then there was a bunch of different like I didn't know if I was gonna do it right away. Basically the landlord wanted me to pay for like the whole HVAC build out because it was and this is

Alan Li (06:36) wow.

Liam (06:37) relevant to like brick and mortar people, like you know that's an insane expense. but if I was able to get that off of, you know, my plate and we could like figure out a deal with her, then it actually would have been possible. So the night before that I signed the lease, I drove like I was I think at a holiday in Connecticut or something, and I drove down to meet her for like a coffee at like nine PM and the landlord, yeah, the landlord herself.

Alan Li (06:41) Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

This is the landlord? Okay.

Liam (07:07) And then presented her like how I felt like if we could come together in terms on this HVAC, like the long term partnership that we can have, and like basically presenting her like because she had told me other things that she was gonna put in the space if I didn't take the lease. So then I kind of showed her a map of like here are like Pilates places in New York, and here are like yoga places in New York, and then here are golf simulators in New York, and there's like obviously like five of them.

Alan Li (07:23) Yeah.

Yeah.

Liam (07:36) in Manhattan.

and I think that kind of helped, you know, convince her to believe in me and the concept and she's been amazing. Like it's been not like a landlord tenant partnership, but it's been like a, you know, real partnership with her. So I definitely got lucky in that way.

Alan Li (07:53) I love I love the hustle. what what was the space before you came in?

Liam (07:57) Nothing. It was like literally concrete box. It was sitting there for like five years. And I guess the Yeah, and I guess like 'cause they the building's fairly new. The building's like four or five years old and so it was empty and they were using it for like their management team to have their office in. But like there was nothing in there. It was like all concrete. Yeah. Ground floor. Yeah.

Alan Li (08:02) It's five years empty.

wow. Okay, and this is ground floor? Okay,

incredible. and then just briefly touch upon why the UVA space and the Indiana space didn't work again.

Liam (08:28) because like I was a first time operator, I think there was a a real lack of belief in terms of like me and in terms of the like it was just an idea at that like it it was more than idea. Like we had a brand but like we didn't have anything, so I think it was very foreign to them. And the UVA one go ahead, sir.

Alan Li (08:31) Yeah.

so from the from the landlord

side it was more it was like more a little bit more skeptical from that side. I see. Hmm.

Liam (08:50) Yeah, like they weren't really responding that much. And then like the one that I really

wanted, the s the ceil the floor was like slanted, so the ceilings were like okay in some space and then like like eight feet in some space, so it was just it was it was gonna be like a huge build out, that just didn't r really make any sense. So and then the UVA one we had to put in an elevator for ADA purposes and so that was obviously not gonna work.

Alan Li (09:10) Got it. Got it.

Yeah.

wow. well that's pretty I mean that's pretty high conviction that you were willing to just move completely out of New York to one of these spaces to to start this.

Liam (09:27) Yeah. Yeah, it definitely

was. I mean, like it's not so far and I was just like I I really believed in doing it there and I still do, I still want to. but just like, you know, obviously my girlfriend's here and it was a whole kind of whirlwind of things that just didn't really make sense when it came down to it.

Alan Li (09:38) Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. okay, so tell me about the space that you found. You know, how big is it? you know, talk to us about what you had to do with the HVAC to convince the landlord, what's rent going, how long is the lease? we'd love to learn little bit about the nitty-gritty.

Liam (10:02) Yeah. so the space itself is about twelve hundred square feet and like with the golf simulator it has to be fairly specific in terms of the layout. And this one really worked out well because it's basically just like a a large rectangle. so you know, I I knew right away that it was gonna work. and then so we basically did a bunch of measurements and found out it was gonna work and then then we got to the build out and kind of like

Alan Li (10:16) Hm.

Liam (10:29) Don't look to the costs. And so, you know, with the HVAC, it it really worked out in our favor of the way that that we were able to structure that deal. So we basically added on like hypothetical cost of the HVAC to the life of the lease. And so the lease itself is five years with the five year option. so you know, first again, first time operator, like I think we were both kind of hedging our risk a little bit in terms of it doesn't work out for me or maybe.

Alan Li (10:45) Mm.

Yeah.

Liam (10:59) Doesn't work out for her either way. so then after that, once we were able to sign the lease, at that point, like I had a quote from a builder from a contractor, and it was honestly just too high. Like I didn't know anything about like how much architects were gonna cost, like how much engineers are gonna cost, like all these things, like the numbers were so insane to me. But I was like, you know what, like we'll figure it out. So I signed the lease.

Alan Li (11:22) Yeah.

Ha ha ha.

so you you you you

had some in plan but nothing like concrete, but you're like, I'm just gonna figure this out? Cool. I like it.

Liam (11:36) Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It

was it was definitely a bit of a leap of faith. well actually I guess I'll backtrack a little bit like a probably a week before two weeks before I send release. I actually hired a couple interns. one that was from Pratt who just graduated and he's like incredibly talented. So I worked with him to like figure out what the layout was actually gonna be and like he designed like basically kind of a sketch concept and so I used that to

present to her and to, you know, figure out what these costs were were actually gonna be. Yeah.

Alan Li (12:04) Yeah.

Yeah.

D did you use AI at all? Because I know AI sometimes is good at like floor planning or designing spaces as well, from what I've seen.

Liam (12:19) Yeah, I tried

I don't think it was like now it's been such an insane like exponential curve, but it wasn't quite there yet. Like it was kind of like yeah, it wasn't it was you know, this was six months ago and it wasn't really like understanding kind of like like it would basically give me a a layout that wasn't at all relevant to the the space. Yeah.

Alan Li (12:26) Back then.

I see. Okay,

cool. are you able to share roughly how much rent is for this five year period?

Liam (12:43) Yeah.

so initially it was going it was so it was eleven five. well I think the initial her initial offer was I think ten five plus like nine hundred a month for Pondo fees. and then so you know it was like eleven five and then we bid another thousand to be able to get the lease. And then the HVAC added on about

Alan Li (12:56) Yeah.

Liam (13:12) thousand per month. So now we're at like thirteen five including condo fees.

Alan Li (13:16) Okay. Well and condo fees, w what is that?

Liam (13:19) It's basically just like the kind of common area, like maintenance fees that you're paying to the building that typically a landlord Yeah, yeah, kind of. Like typically a landlord will take it on themselves, but I guess my broker telling me that this was a bit of a unique deal where, you know, we're just having it in involved in the in the rent. And like, you know, I wasn't trying to fight too much, especially once we

Alan Li (13:27) this is like Cam?

Hm.

Liam (13:47) we were able to come to terms with the HVAC deal and kind of just like was like, Okay, this is a good spot to be in. let's not try and like keep going. We're like I know I I like this deal, so like I'm not gonna try and like push it too much. Yeah.

Alan Li (13:59) Cool. Cool.

Okay. Makes sense. and then did you get any T I or you know, abatements for like the build out?

Liam (14:09) So we got four months free at first, and then obviously the the HVAC and then the approval process. Obviously, like again, did not really know what this was gonna be like. You know, my landlord, it could have been a a complete miscommunication, but she was like, It's gonna take three days for approvals of the building. that obviously was not the case, so it took three months or like three, four months. you know, I signed the lease.

Alan Li (14:12) Nice.

I don't think anything takes three

days for for permitting or approval, but

Liam (14:38) Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, again, like this is

something that I think if anyone's thinking about opening a brick and mortar, like just to keep that in mind, like these timelines are probably gonna be much longer than than you think. but so then like four kind of like three months came around. It was it was March. I was supposed to start paying in April. and I basically called her and asked if I could that's how we get to thirteen five, 'cause I asked her

Alan Li (14:49) Yeah, definitely.

Liam (15:08) If we could extend another two months and then put that into the life of the lease. Yeah.

Alan Li (15:13) Yeah. Okay, and this is

you said April of or like March of twenty twenty five or twenty twenty six? Okay, so just a few months ago. Okay, got it.

Liam (15:19) March of twenty twenty six, yeah. Yeah. So we were supposed to start paying a yeah, just a few months ago, exactly.

Alan Li (15:27) I'm excited to dive into the permitting and and the build out because I I know there's I think some complexity with golf spaces and golf simulator spaces, but even before we get there, you know, how how did you do the build out? How long did that take? how did you do the design and ever and all that?

Liam (15:46) Yeah. so starting with the design again, like I hired that intern that helped with the layout, like a lot of this w and then like so basically from there I met with him a good amount and then I kind of realized like hey, we probably need a bit more professional help in terms of like materials and stuff like that. so then I ended up hiring like a professional interior design team and they were amazing. but I think we had like different visions as well.

Alan Li (16:10) Mm-hmm.

Liam (16:16) But eventually we got to the layout of the space and we had a bunch of pipes in the way that were like like obviously with the golf simulator, you need a certain amount of space and height, et cetera. So we had to basically figure out these pipes that were in the back. So then we decided to put like built-in banquettes. and that was like a big part of the design. So like obviously we wanted the spaces to be very separate from each other and like kind of private.

Alan Li (16:45) Mm-hmm.

Liam (16:45) But also

keep this middle ground of a space where it was like open and you could have events and and things like that. so then I kind of like kept figuring out what these costs were gonna be. And I started with the bathroom. The bathroom had like a bunch of holes in the wall, because they just like painted concrete. So I started filling these holes. I was like, Okay, like I can probably do this, like this probably is not too hard. And so I did that. I was like, okay, like, you know, can probably keep going. But then I ended up getting a quote.

these banquettes and like each one was like ten grand. So I like, okay. Yeah. But so then like it kind of just started snowballing in a way where I started like spackling the entire facility because it like all concrete and I wanted it to look like kind of plastery. but also like have like a nice texture. So then I spackled the entire with like joint compound yeah, myself, like the entire walls. And then which took like a week and it was insane. Like I was there until like

Alan Li (17:30) Mm.

Yourself.

Wow.

Liam (17:45) you know, two AM just spackling. And then I got to painting.

Alan Li (17:48) and and this is in

is this in what what time period is this? This is February, March or something?

Liam (17:52) this is so

yeah, I remember there was that huge snowstorm in like December. So that was when we did the the bathroom. For whatever reason I decided that that was the day to do it. And so we went and filled those holes. And then I think like that week, so like the beginning of January, it started spackling. and then Yeah, yeah, it's basically just me. My girlfriend would come and like kind of do a little bit of work and then she would like lay down on the ground. And then

Alan Li (18:01) Okay.

Damn. And right now it's just you, right? on on the team.

Liam (18:20) Yeah, but basically it was just me at this point. yeah, she really is. She really, really is. and yeah, and then we kind of finished that, then I started the painting. And then that was when we started putting like the flooring down, which I had a contractor do. And then kind of during this period, the golf simulator base came because I scheduled it wrong.

Alan Li (18:23) She's a keeper.

Liam (18:46) 'Cause I thought we were gonna be open in like two months. So then they were just like there and they're massive. So like they're really taking up a lot of the space. So then I ended up building like all of the banquettes and all of the furniture like in the simulator base. And again, like I didn't have like a lot of money, so like I was basically just doing whatever I I could. but so yeah, that was that was the the main part of the build out and then the other part I used the contractor for was like the walls, so like the divider walls, and then obviously like electrician for for lighting and stuff.

Alan Li (18:48) Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Yep.

Yeah.

And w in the HVAC too, I assume was that was done in the beginning or later.

Liam (19:19) Yeah.

Yeah, that was so that was also like a huge issue. Like we brought in the simulator bays and then like they obviously needed to like they were it were like so in the way. So like then we had to like move the bays back and forth. It was a whole it was it was a disaster. I planned it I planned it terribly.

Alan Li (19:30) The man.

wow, that's that that must have been a roller coaster. w so roughly for the full build out, what would you estimate, you know, the spend was?

Liam (19:41) Yeah.

we are still calculating everything. I would say like including the pro including the the down payment for the lease, which is like forty six K, I would say it was like two fifty to three hundred.

Alan Li (20:02) Okay. And this is still bootstrapped or raising a little bit from family and friends?

Liam (20:06) Yep. Yeah, I mean,

I had a couple of friends that gave me a little bit towards the end. so they gave me like in like twenty five in total. and then my parents helped out, like kind of halfway through and I was like really stressing about money and everything. So they ended up giving me fifteen, which was really, really nice for them. and then so yeah, and then also for people that are

Alan Li (20:16) Yeah.

Yeah.

Liam (20:35) Listening, this was the biggest thing that I found, which is the Hebrew Free Lending Society. Are you aware of that? So basically if you're starting a business in New York, you can apply to the Hebrew Free Lending Society and they will give you a zero percent interest loan with three months deferral of your of your payments. And then after that they just like take it out of your account every month. But

Alan Li (20:42) Hmm. No.

Liam (21:05) lifesaver, like absolute lifesaver. yeah, I I mean I didn't either. I was just like looking on like New York dot gov resources for like ways to finance and things like that. and

Alan Li (21:07) I've never heard of this. That's incredible.

Are

are there requirements to be approved for a loan or y I assume you present a business plan or something and how much can you take out?

Liam (21:26) Yeah. Yeah. So you basically

you present to them, you can get anywhere I think I forget the numbers, but it's up to sixty grand you can get from them and you basically present to them and you know, give your cost estimates and your projections and you know, they go through basically a review process with their board and then you either get approved or denied and I was lucky enough to to get approved from them.

Alan Li (21:35) Okay.

And just so I understand, they will defer payments up to three months and then even after three months it's zero percent interest. Wow. And and what's like the lifetime of the payment? Is it a year, two years, three years?

Liam (22:02) Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

Mine is

two years. I think it's up to three years for your payment.

Alan Li (22:12) That's incredible. what what's in it for them?

Liam (22:13) Yeah.

You know, I think you might have to interview them. but really like they're they're a non profit and I think, you know, they've been around for a long, long time and it's just something that you know, they've done for helping New York in general. I think they have actually across like a lot of different states. But yeah, I mean if there's anything else if there's anything that comes from this interview, it's definitely to at least look at that and apply, if you need some some extra funding.

Alan Li (22:20) I should.

I love that.

Yeah, and you said it's called the Hebrew free learning s lending society. Okay. It and y you don't have to be, I assume, like, Jewish to do this or you just have to live in New York, okay.

Liam (22:47) lending society. Mm-hmm.

You don't have to be Jewish. You have to live in New York. if you're starting a business in New York. Yeah.

And then you have to get depending on the amount that you're applying for, you have to get two guarantors that are both in New York.

Alan Li (23:08) Okay. That's that's an incredible resource. Thank you for sharing that. I'm sure the audience will find find that really helpful. okay, well you you have everything in place now, right? This is like as of March or

Liam (23:11) Yeah.

As

of literally like the last day, April twelfth at like five AM, that's when we got it already, which it'll be opened on April twelfth at ten AM.

Alan Li (23:25) Before opening.

my gosh. And I I I think I read a post or something, you were up till six that day preparing.

Liam (23:37) Yeah.

Yeah, that was a that was a long night. We went to bed at like six, woke I woke up at like eight. So it was basically like a nap. And then if there was anyone at the opening party I was a zombie, so apologies about that.

Alan Li (23:51) well that's that's still incredible that you were able to build out the space pretty pretty quickly. what was the reception like or what has been the reception like over the last, you know, month or so?

Liam (24:04) it's honestly been better than I was expecting. Like at first, you know, like when people came to the opening party, like we built it in a way that I wanted to be like so beautiful and also like feel like golf. Like I wanted to feel like a clubhouse because I felt like initially that was what was missing with indoor golf was like there was kind of a divide between golf in general and then like indoor golf, which kind of so there was never that connection and so that's where I wanted to

put Clubhouse in that in that middle ground. But yeah, I mean like everyone who walked in was was pretty amazed, which made me feel obviously really good and and relieved. 'cause like I was in it for so long, I was looking at like every single detail. And so yeah. so it's been going better than, you know, I I expected for the first couple months. And yeah, I mean

Alan Li (24:44) Yeah.

How

how have you been getting the word out?

Liam (25:03) so initially like it was you know, we when we did a few posts back when we were like doing a coming soon, I reached out to this account. New York openings. I forget what the the actual name is, I'll have to send it to you. But yeah, yeah. So like and they usually do restaurants, so they were nice enough to give me, you know, a post on there and so that created a ton of buzz, which was really, really awesome. And

Alan Li (25:19) Yeah, yeah, yeah. I followed that account. They're great.

Liam (25:31) From there, like other people had reached out to kind of post us or feature us. And then so it's kind of that snowball effect. And then recently there was another account that was pretty big, New York Locals that found us from that post. And then so they posted. And so that's been huge as well. So, you know, it's kinda kind of been that like sort of natural growth. we have done some ads which have helped as well.

Alan Li (25:44) Mm, yes.

Liam (26:00) But again, like I think it's helped that we're fairly unique and we're in like a good a really good area and we're in a we're kind of the only one in this kind of three zip code radius. So yeah, it's been it's been pretty natural so far, which has been cool.

Alan Li (26:14) Cool.

And and how how do you describe yourself? Because y there's the you know, the Chelsea Piers which is, you know, outside, and then there's the you know, five iron golfs in the city. where where does Clubhouse sit?

Liam (26:26) I would say we're we kind of sit in this interesting middle ground where, you know, I want us to be a place that can be for a lot of different types of golfers. Like if you are someone who wants to wake up at five AM and just like grind and you know, hit a hundred golf balls before work, like we can do that. If you're a place where you want to like host a party and like bring all of your friends, like we have this amazing space that's open and fun and like cool that, you know, you can do that as well.

Alan Li (26:41) Mm.

Yeah.

Liam (26:55) Or if they wanna bring your kids or your wife. So I feel like we wanted to create this space that is like so inclusive of like all groups of golfers, 'cause I know there's a ton of like some people like to, you know, drink a million beers on the golf course and some people like to, you know, not talk to anybody on the golf course. Like there's so many different golfers and so I think that's where we wanted to kind of fit in in that space. Yeah.

Alan Li (27:03) Mm-hmm.

Ha ha ha.

Sure. And h

how many how many hitting bays are there? Okay.

Liam (27:22) So we have two bays.

and you know, there's no bar or anything, it's all self service. So you'll basically book on your phone and fifteen minutes before you're booking, you can tap unlock door and then you'll just get door access. And then at the time of your booking, you just or at the end you just leave.

Alan Li (27:27) Okay.

Okay. Well I I'd love to dive a little bit into the business model because I th I think it's pretty unique because it's generally unstaffed, right? And then y you have key card access to come in. So so tell us tell us how it all works.

Liam (27:51) Yeah. it is it is generally unstaffed. So people will ask what I'm doing all day, which is a fair question. so I I will still go there every day. But anyways, yeah, the business model was it wasn't necessarily to like get as much money as possible and like lowest expenses because I think there's way there's plenty of ways to spend money in a small business. but really it was more the atmosphere that we wanted to create where like you kind of feel like it's your own

Alan Li (27:57) Ha ha ha.

Liam (28:21) place for that hour where there's not like someone watching you or like you feel like in golf is you know people can be self conscious about their swing or like how they hit the ball and so that was also part of it like being able to just feel private in there. So but yeah basically it's it's 24 hours. So you know you can come in at any time, day or night. And like I have the ability to kind of monitor it monitor this and then also like people can

Alan Li (28:22) Mm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Liam (28:51) use the space whenever they want. but yeah, like the business model is basically it's it's supposed to be hyper local. and like the way that we want to expand is all going to be hyper local. So like our only membership that we offer besides like bulk packages is called the neighbor pass, where basically you have to be in the three surrounding zip codes to be able to have access to this. And then we also cap it at fifty people so that there's not like there's like

Alan Li (28:53) Mm.

Liam (29:20) you know, there's always a time that you are able to book. So if you were paying for this membership, like you should be able to play whenever you want. And so that's during the day. so we have that that, you know, is really great for the community, but also helps me to, you know, with my baseline costs, like make sure that I can pay rent and like actually keep the doors open. Yeah.

Alan Li (29:23) it's pretty unique.

Yeah. And and

that's a that's a monthly fee and they get what unlimited access to the space or like X number of appointments a week?

Liam (29:45) So they get unlimited

access during the week or during the days. so it's off peak hours, they're unlimited. So like during the middle of the week, you know, up until five PM, they can play two hours a day. And then they get three peak hours included as well, and then they get a preferred rate on their peak hours. Yeah.

Alan Li (29:51) Okay.

Okay.

I see. Gotcha.

And w what's the monthly membership for that? Okay. And you said you verify their zip code, is that based on like their home address or credit card or like how how do you how do you even verify that?

Liam (30:10) So that's three ninety five a month.

Yeah, it's their home address.

Like they can send really any document. But you so it's either you live there or you work there, and you'll you'll be able to have access. So you could send your W whatever whatever it is to verify. Like I'm not trying to be like the police verifying it. It's more just to make sure that, you know, this is all fair to to people who, you know, are in the area.

Alan Li (30:26) Mm.

Yeah.

I like that. A hyperlocal model. That's cool. that's really interesting. W what do you do if someone, you know, books a hour appointment? Can they just what what what happens if they just stay for like three, four hours? Is that even possible?

Liam (30:55) it definitely is possible. like let's say if someone books at like twelve AM and then, you know, they stay until five AM when there's no one else there. I don't have guardrails to like it's all in kind of the terms and conditions. Like if you're going there and you are playing from twelve to one and that's your booking time and you stay until five AM, you know, the policy is you you'll just get charged for those hours that you used. which, you know, I think it's it's kind of the contract that you

Alan Li (31:03) Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Liam (31:24) engage in when you go to to clubhouse is like you that you paid for this hour, so if you want to use other hours, totally fine. But, you know, this is our space as well and, you know, we wanna both be respectful to to each other.

Alan Li (31:29) Yeah.

I see. I see. Yeah, 'cause I I I can see if, you know, there's a appointment after, you know, there's someone waiting and then, you know, the someone will feel the pressure. But if there's not, like, you know, someone to hang out there for like two hours. I was wondering if there was like a way to I don't know, turn off the simulator or like do something, but

Liam (31:43) Right. Right.

There is. there definitely

like I w when I was first building it out, I built that integration to turn off the actual software like when someone's booking is done. but that being said, like at the end of the day, like if you wanna keep playing, like you should keep playing. Like if you wanna keep paying for more hours, like totally fine. It's not something that I wanna restrict. So that's why I ended up not building it. but you know, I have like kind of

Alan Li (32:11) Yeah.

Yeah.

Liam (32:23) monitoring in place that if someone is there over the time they're supposed to be, like I'll get an alert and then just kind of monitor it from there. Yeah.

Alan Li (32:31) that's cool. Yeah, no,

I I I like it. And then does anyone ever like you know, they stay over a bit and then, you know, they get maybe hit with the charge. Do they ever get upset about that or are they pretty reasonable?

Liam (32:43) I think people are I haven't I haven't engaged in really any conversations like that so far. Like I think if someone's there for longer, like and they get charged, then I think they for the most part understand why they get charged. Like I'm not trying to like charge anybody anything that they're not using or like should get charged, like that that would never be my again, it's not like if you're all five minutes over, like I'm gonna charge you for five minutes, you know, it's more of a longer period than that.

Alan Li (32:58) Yeah.

For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, gotcha. no, that's really cool. and then it seems like you had pretty good a good customer base. It ha has there been any interesting feedback that you've learned that has either altered or changed the setup, layout, booking process?

Liam (33:28) at first the booking, like the door access I guess was not working properly. So like that was definitely a big thing. the teas that we have were I guess not great at first, so we were like replacing we replaced them and then we are replacing them again. People actually would bring in like real tees and so a screen just ripped because I guess if a real tea like hits the screen, it'll like create like a little rip.

Alan Li (33:33) Hm.

Liam (33:56) And then it'll become

Alan Li (33:56) Yeah.

Liam (33:57) like bigger and bigger. So we had to shut one bay down for the last few days. and then on my end, like I'm moving away from my booking software right now and I'm actually creating my own custom app with like Claude and Codex. So we've been working on that for the last couple of months. Yeah. So like those things were like kind of my personal preferences that I'm like, okay, I need something that's really more custom to me. instead of kind of having to white label

Alan Li (34:00) Yeah.

I love that.

Liam (34:25) different apps that don't really work for me as well.

Alan Li (34:28) Yeah, this I I started recently asking people about how they integrate AI into their businesses and in the last five people, every single one has been using AI to some degree. I think I think you're using it a little bit more advanced, but people are at least doing it for help with SEO or optimizing their Google business profile. And it's I I love seeing people building physical spaces leveraging the power of AI, because to your point, like most software is, you know, off the shelf and it's not custom to what you need and your business is pretty unique.

Liam (34:37) Totally.

Yeah.

Alan Li (34:58) unique. So Claude is perfect for that.

Liam (35:01) Yeah, no,

for sure. I mean it it's f me and my girlfriend were talking about it last night because she was like, you know, you kind of started this in the perfect time where like you 'cause like a lot of these things that I'm trying to do and probably a lot of people are trying to do, like you need someone or something to like bounce your ideas and like, you know, projections everything off and a lot of that will cost money if you wanna hire like a business manager or a mentor or whatever it may be. So

it does it does definitely help the the small business a lot and the person who's, you know, basically solo.

Alan Li (35:34) Yeah. I I think it's it's one of the greatest times to be an entrepreneur with the power of AI. a lot of these software things, even in our businesses, you know, could be tens of thousands of dollars with, you know, monthly recurring fees and now with a twenty dollar subscription you can get something extremely tailored. So

Liam (35:39) Yeah.

Hundred percent. I I

when I was trying to build the custom map where I was thinking about it, I got one quote that was like a hundred thousand dollars. So then I kind of just basically scrapped that. But then like again, like back to the exponential part of it, like you can do so much now that you know, five months ago I wasn't able to and now, you know, it's it's fairly comprehensive.

Alan Li (36:15) Yeah. Well it's it's funny 'cause I I built a mobile app back in I think twenty twenty, twenty twenty one with with an agency and we spent, you know, about fifty grand and now you know Chachi Pete or Claude would do it in a weekend. So there's clear clear value creation.

Liam (36:30) Yep. Yep. Definitely looking back at it,

there's a lot of things like that. but hey, now you could you could rebuild it or do something else, which is which is great.

Alan Li (36:41) Yeah. I I noticed that you're also sort of sharing your story on Instagram, like doing or like inviting the audience in on the build out. And I notice that's pretty common theme amongst like younger founders who are like opening physical spaces especially. how how important do you think it is to invite the audience along with you throughout the process?

Liam (37:06) Yeah, I think you know, they're from an outside perspective, like if you were to just see like a space that opened, like you don't really get what actually happened before that or like how difficult it was, or like why they did it and the story behind it. And I feel like it really adds a ton to going to a space and I think people also like supporting a small business, you know, more than like no offense to Walmart, but like you'd rather go to

Alan Li (37:35) Ha

ha ha.

Liam (37:35) a local store than go

to a a large one and I think positioning that on social is just kind of it helps, you know, and I think it makes people really connect to to you and to to the store as well.

Alan Li (37:48) Yeah,

agreed. so I mean it's been I think a couple months in or almost a couple of months in. how's it going in terms of you know, number of bookings that you're getting on a daily basis?

Liam (38:01) yeah, again, I mean it's it's it's we're definitely in a a better place than I thought we were going to be at this point. Like I had basically the projections of the ramp period for the first two months. and we're basically like already in in the ramp I would say revenue that I that I was projecting. So from that perspective, it's it's been great. The memberships were we have about eleven spots left out of the fifty. So

Alan Li (38:29) it's incredible.

Liam (38:30) Yeah,

which is which is great as well, especially in the summer. Like, you know, I wanted to open in the winter, which is where our peak season is, but the the the summer seems to be still be doing well, and I think it's just kind of a testament to playing golf in New York is a little bit difficult. So people are always itching.

Alan Li (38:47) Yeah.

Yeah. so I know in the beginning you were there, you know, even daily, even though it's a like a status model, but what are you what are you doing now? Like what are you focused on now?

Liam (38:59) So I'll still go every day and like clean and you know kind of reset everything. I will eventually hire a facility manager to do that, but as of right now, that's that's what I'm doing. And then we are working on, you know, a couple different things. One is we're looking at a new location that's potentially gonna be in a different model, but it's gonna like in an office building. Still same vibe and aesthetic, but like a different model where it's more catered to businesses. And then

Alan Li (39:11) Aka

Mm.

Liam (39:29) very focused on trying to build this app and get that up and running by like the end of this month. So that's been a main focus of what we're doing. And then there's always just like things that kind of come up and yeah, you get you get taken away with.

Alan Li (39:43) General operational. Yeah.

And in the app, just so I understand, this is to help with the the booking, mostly, just the booking software? Okay.

Liam (39:51) Correct. Yeah, it's it's basically

so we can have everything kind of all in one place. So like you can you know, it one it'll look better, but two it'll just be less complicated for the user, 'cause right now I think it is a little bit complicated. So like for example, right now the app is like at your booking time, you have to like kind of find this tile, click on the tile, and then you have to click again to like open the door. And for our new app it'll be like fifteen minutes before you're booking. There'll like this huge tile that will come down and it'll say like unlock door.

Alan Li (40:13) Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Liam (40:21) And

so like just trying to basically like make the user experience much better and I didn't like there's so many things that go into the back end of building an app that I have no idea that I didn't know. so yeah, figuring that out.

Alan Li (40:35) Gotcha.

How much is is your girlfriend helping now or if if she is?

Liam (40:40) she yeah,

she is well sh so I guess to back check, she is the graphic designer for Clubhouse. she's basically the head of all the creatives. so she was part of the first iteration of everything. Like we went through a bunch of different logos and style guides and things, and so we she probably did like five until we landed on this one. And then she built the entire website and now

Alan Li (40:48) okay.

Nice.

Liam (41:09) is and she does she does a lot of different graphics and stuff like that, but now she's involved in the app where like kind of the back end stuff is done so she's helping to do the front end with it. So she's she's definitely very involved.

Alan Li (41:20) Nice.

Is she also full time on this?

Liam (41:25) She is not. She has another job that she's the graphic designer for, but you know, when she can, she she helps out. Yeah.

Alan Li (41:30) Got it. She's helping nights and weekends. Okay.

That's cool. so the next it it's basically you and her and then you eventually will probably hire someone to do some more of the operations. Is that right for this location? Okay.

Liam (41:44) That's the plan. Yeah, that's the plan. I mean, like

operations I think is gonna be the main driver for really hiring somebody. So, you know, being able to manage locations and kind of manage you know, any problems that are happening within the facility, like someone that can do that if we have two locations would be would be the most helpful. So I think that's probably the next iteration or or phase.

Alan Li (42:08) Okay. and then in terms of the the growth plan, I know you have the next location upcoming, but are are you planning out like a five year journey for this or are you thinking about raising venture funding to to really take this to the the next level or a more measured growth path?

Liam (42:25) That is the plan. I think you know, for what we wanna do, we wanna again keep everything very local. So like being able to plan ourselves in a bunch of different locations, especially in New York, like people kind of operate in a you know, ten block radius. So I think there's just still a ton of opportunity here, but I think there's a ton of opportunity in in other cities as well. So we wanna open this next one and kind of still bootstrap this one and then after that.

Alan Li (42:44) Yeah.

Liam (42:54) We do want to raise like a kind of one sum of money and then open, you know, five or six at a time so that we can really just kind of have our foot in the door and a bunch of different places.

Alan Li (43:02) Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's cool. Have you thought about you know, franchising this concept as well?

Liam (43:13) Definitely. think obviously it's very early and you know, we're still figuring out our brand in the first place. But there have definitely been people that have reached out about it and want to learn more about it, which is really, really amazing and super nice. I wanna make sure that we keep what we have in terms of like our culture and like the way that we treat customers and like our brand is not just like our brand, but it's like the way that we operate each

Alan Li (43:19) Sure.

Liam (43:43) place. So eventually, yes, with some control to make sure that like, you know, what we're doing still matches. Like I think this first location is a really good template for what we want to keep building out. Like in every way possible, you know, like the vibe, the experience, and then also just like the service that we are making sure that we offer to everybody. Like if someone has an issue, you know, I respond in 10 seconds because like, you know, I that's it's so important. Like if you're there and I'm not there.

Alan Li (43:58) Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Liam (44:12) I wanna make sure that, you know, you're not losing any time. Yeah, for sure.

Alan Li (44:13) People are on top of it. Yeah.

Well w how how would you describe your culture?

Liam (44:21) in terms of our our company culture and like let's say like if I want to keep building all this out, the main thing that I've been focused on from the beginning is just like no matter what some things may cost, like the most important part is like that people's experience is A plus, like every single time, like no matter what. So, you know, we didn't we didn't cheap out on like any part of the actual

Alan Li (44:42) Mm-hmm.

Liam (44:48) simulator itself, like having like the best screen, the best projector, like the most wide bays that we can. So you never feel like you're hitting the wall. Like these are all things that from a company perspective, like I would want to keep keep going with. Like i for example, like if you let's say if I went with like a twelve foot simulator bay like wide, like I could probably fit four in the space that we have right now. But like you know that that you know that's that's not gonna be like the

Alan Li (45:13) wow.

Liam (45:17) the experience that we want people to have. Like we want people to feel like it's private and, you know, premium and all these other things that, you know, I want to make sure that we're we're sticking with as we we go along. so

Alan Li (45:19) Mm.

So delivering a exceptional customer experience no matter what. I like that. Cool. I I also heard that it permitting for golf simulators or bays in the city i is a pretty weird process. Is is that right as well? Like it's not as easy as like I I'm opening one up, I can just put a golf simulator in, or or is it?

Liam (45:36) Yeah, definitely.

There's definitely like zoning

restrictions for a lot of different places. Like I think it's really location specific. but you know, like we also sell different merchandise and stuff like that. So I think, you know, you can categorize it in different ways where it's fitness or it's retail or it's you know, things like that. 'Cause we're like a bowling alley. You know, that's not really what we're trying to open. We're like a five iron where we have

Alan Li (46:04) Hm.

Mm.

Liam (46:26) you know, alcohol and food, drinks, like things like that. Like we're kind of a unique space in that way.

Alan Li (46:27) To drink, yeah.

Gotcha. Okay. Well that's exciting, man. This is this is a cool concept. I I I love the the 24-hour model and just like the ease of check-in. I I've seen those done in some gym concepts and some co-working space concepts to some some success. So I I'm I'm rooting for y'all as well.

Liam (46:52) Appreciate it.

Alan Li (46:53) So you know, looking back on on this journey over the last year or so, and you know, with the knowledge that you have now, is there anything that you would have changed if you could go back?

Liam (47:07) someone else just asked me this recently and I would say first thing is definitely get everything in writing always. Like every conversation that you have with literally anybody. Always like have some sort of a paper trail. So there's never like any he said, she said, things like that, 'cause we did run into some pickups in that way. yes, yes, to the build out. we had to let go of an engineer.

Alan Li (47:21) Yeah.

This is this is in regards to the build out, I assume? Okay.

Liam (47:35) in the middle of the build out because of like a bunch of different things that, you know, he was doing and we didn't agree with, et cetera. And so that, you know, caused a snowball effect with, you know, getting lawyers involved and et cetera. So if we had more of a paper trail of like kind of the conversations that we had, it would have it would have been a much smoother process. So there's definitely that. And then I would say in that note, like

Alan Li (47:43) Yeah.

Sure.

Liam (48:03) very specific to brick and mortar is before you do anything, sign anything, like have an architect come look at it and figure out what it's actually going to to be like. Because you don't really know until you get in there. so definitely that. And then just like know everything about the building, like all the processes and approvals and really get a hand on kind of like what that would look like. Because again, like I thought the build out was going to be three days. It was three months.

Alan Li (48:11) Mm.

Liam (48:33) So like obviously I wish I would have known that in the beginning. But again, like sometimes I don't know. Things are just better to not know everything up front. You know? Like you

Alan Li (48:33) Yeah.

That's right, because it

Yeah, go ahead.

Liam (48:47) No, it's g like you know it's just like if if you know everything, like there's there's a million different reasons to not do something. So it's it's sort of good in a way to be a little bit delusional to a degree.

Alan Li (48:59) You kinda you kinda

yeah, you kinda need the ignorance a little bit 'cause of with how hard it is, you know, yeah. You can always not start.

Liam (49:02) Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Alan Li (49:09) Leah, this has been a lot of fun. If people wanna follow along or get in touch, what's the best way for them to do so?

Liam (49:16) Yeah. Follow us at clubhouse golf dot nyc. and then if you have any questions or wanna reach out to me directly, my email is is Liam at clubhousegolf.nyc and I'm always happy to bounce ideas off each other and and you know, meet different people around the city or people that are creating anything physical. it's a lot of fun and yeah, thanks for having me.

Alan Li (49:40) Awesome. Well, yeah, I'm excited to try it out at at some point soon. but yeah, appreciate you taking the time again, Liam.

Liam (49:47) Thanks, Alan.